Maul’s saber spun out of his hand, bouncing away across the floor. The last misty remnants of Mother Talzin’s magic grew hazy and tattered, then dispersed and vanished, leaving the dying Savage lying in the shell of his now-oversized armor. Concluding from Filoni's statement, "Savage did better than the Jedi Council," that "Savage put up a good fight against Sidious" is both non-sequitur and fails to listen to/read Filoni's statement for what it is. “I am most impressed to see you have survived your injuries,” he said, the voice as rough and cracked as Maul remembered. is a very impressive feat no matter the time it took to accomplish it. The aesthetic quality of a fight has nothing to do with its context. During this brief fight, Savage evinces noticeable strain to keep up as he repeatedly grunts and vainly flails his blades but never comes close to slashing Sidious. [6] The fighting that resulted from Maul's power grab led to a battle in the capital city of Sundari, where Darth Sidious—Maul's former Sith Master—arrived and captured Maul during a lightsaber duel. In the Clone Wars TV series, it was revealed that Maul was one of three sons born to a powerful witch called Mother Talzin. It might be one worth doing, but I wouldn't call it high on my list. Believe it or not, there’s more to Darth Maul that his brief appearances in Phantom Menace. Isolating one comment from Filoni and holding that as the rule of the fight when there is a wealth of other comments from him pointing to a different conclusion is an obscurantist's argument. If he did, that would allow the yellow-and-black Zabrak to follow his initial attack with a lightning-quick thrust that would penetrate Sidious’s defenses and wound or even kill him. Clone Wars[2]Mandalorian civil war[3] Maul sprang to his feet and ignited his lightsaber. Maul had grown more powerful since the last time he’d been in Sidious’s presence, before the Neimoidian invasion of Naboo had turned disastrous and Obi-Wan had bested him inside the Theed power core. Savage performed better than the Council members, but the Council members themselves performed terribly. Star Wars Universe appears in 867 issues. It’s just not gonna happen. There are several reasons why certain scenes in this duel are, to be perfectly blunt, doctored to portray Maul and Savage as posing a serious threat to Sidious in the course of this encounter. I was planning on doing a couple more TCW-related duels. So be on the lookout for that one shortly. To think that Maul and Opress could truly challenge Sidious is ludicrous. This is more likely the … I still think there might be some merit to that suggestion, but in TCW's defense, we should assess a few other plot points: 1) Maul and Savage were virtually never separated, which means that Tyranus would have to kill both; dispatching Dooku to prove his standing in Maul's stead is one thing, defeating both the brothers at once is another and is honestly just unlikely for Dooku to succeed in; 2) the fact that Maul and Savage had founded a world-conquering enterprise through the efforts of the Death Watch and several criminal factions was a growth in influence and resources that may have eventually challenged the Republic and/or CIS forces, which Sidious obviously wanted to avoid; he needed to curb Maul's continued efforts before he became too much of a problem; 3) Sidious may not have been willing to include Maul in the Sith Order by that point anyway due to Maul's willful defiance to the Sith code by illegitimately reinstating himself as a Sith Lord and inducting Savage as his Sith apprentice; Sidious' goal on Mandalore appeared more to be about thinning the Sith ranks by removing the "pretenders.". Rescue Darth Maul from the Spire[2] Here's why Maul was motivated to find Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars: Rebels, and it's not so that he could kill his arch-nemesis. : ). That was a nice read. Numerous Death Watch loyalists turned against Maul, who formed his own Mandalorian super commandos. The legend of Darth Maul. The feeling had begun as a faint stirring in the Force, like the tiniest ripple of something moving slowly through deep water, far away but drawing steadily closer. Lucas isn't infallible, whether it was a mistake to bring him back or a mistake to kill him off in the first time, it happened and Lucas didn't course correct until after he had written Episode II and Episode III, why is why Maul can't split the beans about Palpatine until after those events take place. Maul's escape led to a battle between Death Watch and the Separatists on Zanbar, sparking a chain of events that culminated in Talzin's death and the destruction of Maul's Shadow Collective. Ever since Darth Maul took center stage in the most recent Clone Wars arc, we've been waiting for Chancellor Palpatine to step out of the shadows and school Maul as Darth Sidious. I always thought since I first saw AotC that Yoda proved himself the clear better of the two, with Dooku being able to hold his own but ultimately lose, but you can find obscure EU lore pieces that suggest they were equals. On Maul's side, Sidious succeeded in temporarily knocking Maul unconscious with a telekinetic blast until he had mortally wounded and discarded Savage. I'm curious, should we take that at face value or was it a ruse? 3; Despite this. I know that Darth Maul is a Sith name given to him by Darth Sidious. IGN: And there are some other notable beats there at the end, besides, obviously, the death of Savage. Absolutely marvelous to read, Silver. Filoni:And he’s enjoying himself while he does it. Not very hard to do considering that the official starwars.com, on which "Wrath of the Sith" is posted, also said that Palpatine slew Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar, and Kit Fisto before any of them could react. They assume that if Maul can kill Vader, it will please Palpatine and Maul can take the place he once had as his apprentice. 1. [2], Once inside the Spire, and while Dooku interrogated Maul for information about the Shadow Collective, Kast and Saxon contacted Almec, with Saxon telling the Prime Minister that they had located Maul on the seventh level of the prison. As soon as he shows up, people are going to die, bad things are going to happen. Maul danced away from one blow, then reversed his movement to avoid another, and then there were too many to count, and then there were even more than that. EDIT: I already change the question to be more clear and accurate. This is partly speculation on my part though. None[2] He then fights Maul and Savage, killing Opress, and defeating and capturing Maul alive. Savage didn’t think Sidious was fast enough to take advantage of the brief opening in his defenses, but he was wrong. All of the other Sith that I know have a real name and a Sith name. The commandos rushing to intercept him reached for their throats, gagging, and the cloaked figure swept past them without a sideways glance, gaze fixed straight ahead. Then, we have been provided with this event summary that clarifies in the simplest terms just how much Sidious surpasses Maul and Savage. Head of State Count Dooku[2] Even the horn-ram that Savage launched Sidious off the balcony with dealt absolutely no visible or implicit injury to him; this is significant because that same horn-ram was crippling against Adi Gallia in the duel between her and Savage on Florrum in the episode "Revival." Sidious and his apprentice, Count Dooku, intended for Maul to escape, hoping he would lead them to the Nightsister witch Mother Talzin, Maul's mother and an old enemy of Darth Sidious. --Taken from ign.com, Star Wars: The Clone Wars' Dave Filoni Talks about the Death Watch/Darth Maul Arc and the Casualties Along the Way Page 2 of 3. I was wondering when Erkan would get in here, lol. As I said in the OP and posted sources for, Sidious was toying with the brothers, always held the upper hand in the fight even against both at once, and enjoyed himself as he defeated them, protracting the duel for no other purpose than his own sense of gratification. But yeah, he had to go. To that, I agree; Savage did put up a better fight than the Jedi Council did. You can take or leave it as you will. Did you watch the duel? Multiple battle droids[2]Multiple super battle droids[2]Multiple droidekas[2] His mechanical legs convulsed, shorting out. The reality is, Savage fought for a longer period of time with fewer allies against Sidious; therefore, he put up a better fight than the Jedi Council did. There's no lowballing here; it's actually lowballing Sidious to think that Maul and Opress are even comparable to him. Duchess Satine sits in her cell on Mandalore when she is rescued by her nephew Korkie, his friends, and a group of Death Watch dissidents led by Bo-Katan. Almec gave them the order to proceed, and the two set off explosive charges on the third level of the prison as a diversion. Because it's still visually impressive. Meanwhile, Sidious was followed to Stygeon Prime by two Death Watch warriors, Rook Kast and Gar Saxon, under orders from Mandalore's Prime Minister, Almec, to free Maul from the Spire. A rhyme crept into his head, a nagging sing-song bit of poetry. It's still clear that he was toying with him. I do enjoy them. I can't speak for silver but just because he thinks Sidious proved he could toy with Maul while maintaining superiority and beat him whenever he wants doesn't mean he doesn't enjoy the duel. 10.3k 15 15 gold badges 68 68 silver badges 134 134 bronze … His second blow to Savage sent him flying backward and lying face-down on the ground until he struggled to regain his composure some seconds later, and the last roundhouse that Sidious threw at Savage stunned him and left him open to a stab with both lightsabers that Sidious immediately ended the contest with. Preying on Vader’s ego, they goad him into dueling Maul for the chance to prove himself as the Dark Side’s true disciple. Comic Vine users. Great blog Silver, by the way. And with that, this whole debate has been settled. Darth Sidious wielding both lightsabers on Mandalore. Once again, I point out the fact that starwars.com described Sidious as "toying" with Maul, and Filoni described him as "enjoying himself" while "always" maintaining the upper hand. Darth Maul - I don't think he did, because I doubt Palpatine was planning on keeping him around for long because of Dooku, and Maul was only a small part of his plan, but I guess that could be part of the reason why Palpatine wants to hunt down and kill Maul and Savage, in case they know anything about his plans. Sidious’s sabers were a blur, a whirling cage of deadly plasma. The topic today is on the duel between Darth Sidious and Darth Maul and Savage Opress in The Clone Wars episode "The Lawless.". Maul tried to slash past Sidious’s guard, only to find his Master had given ground, causing Maul to extend his arms too far and leave himself slightly unbalanced. Regardless, non-canon content is not an acceptable form of proof. In my Sidious vs Mace blog, I made it clear that it was my interpretation and not an absolute fact, because both George Lucas and starwars.com have left Palpatine's duel with Mace open to viewer interpretation. Sidious slammed him into the floor. The Sith had not survived their centuries of exile by being sentimental, and a student who couldn’t stand against his Master in a mere training exercise was worse than useless—he was a waste of valuable resources better used elsewhere. His statement that Savage "puts up a better fight than the Jedi Council did" in no way relegates his redundancy in saying that Sidious was dominating the fight from start to finish, because all he suggested in that comment is that Savage fought better than the Jedi Council, not that he fought well against Sidious. If you're taking any suggestions about any TCW-related fights you could do in the future, I think Luminara & Ahsoka vs. Ventress in S1 and Dooku vs. Ventress & the Nightsisters would be interesting. During the Clone Wars, and over ten years after being presumed dead during the Battle of Naboo, the Sith Lord Maul returned to galactic prominence by creating a criminal army known as the Shadow Collective. Where Maul and Savage only each hit Sidious once, Sidious connected no less than four unarmed strikes on Savage before killing him and two unarmed strikes on Maul, as well as a Force Push mid-duel, and on top of that, the hits Sidious connected inflicted more lasting harm. --Taken from starwars.com, The Lawless Episode Gallery, Image 21 of 23. As they flee in speeders, they are chased by several Mandalorian super commandos. “Brother, I am an unworthy apprentice,” Savage said. I didn't even know this misconception existed. Sidious has to dig deep and use his dark side immersion to win. Sidious retrieved a pair of elegant-looking lightsabers from within the depths of his robes and ignited them. Nothing to add tbh, considering Silver's extreme bias on Sidious, I would be talking to the wall. Filoni said that it was ''the best'' lightsaber duel they've done, if it is just a joke where Sidious was toying with them, what's the point of it ? “And I have built all of this in hopes of returning to your side.”. He was dancing circles around them both at once while holding back; revealed TK potent enough to constrain both of them and negligently pummel Maul; and used Lightning to torture Maul as an example of his superiority. Savage performed better than the Council members, but the Council members themselves performed terribly. He could have ended their encounter before ever crossing blades with them, as he proved he could trash both of them with the Force when he maintained a Force grip against both that neither could escape from, when he KO'd Maul instantly with a single Force push, and when he pounded Maul into the wall and the floor with hand gestures. Sidious stopped. Bo-Katan and the others hold them off, but finally the speeder is shot down, and the Duchess is taken by the commandos, but not before sending a hologram message to the Jedi asking for help from Obi-Wan Kenobipersonally. star-wars sith darth-sidious darth-tyranus. The key to interpreting this quote properly is in understanding that this a statement of comparison between Savage and the Jedi Council members, not Savage and Sidious. But to be honest, the saltiness and hilarity of Erkan's comment is what makes this blog great. It was their mission to ensure that Maul escaped from the Spire. On that note, I could also mention the telekinetic control Sidious exhibited at the beginning and end of this battle, where he pins Maul and Savage to a wall against their will and lets them down of his own volition and later bashes Maul into a wall and the floor, both of which show just how easily he could have beaten both with the Force alone had he not elected to duel them for his own entertainment. Maul and Savage didn’t waste time seeking an advantageous position. This fight is so clearly and so unfairly played in Palpatine's favor, I honestly can't fathom how it could be misunderstood to highlight Maul's formidability. Problem is, the fact that Sidious dispatched Savage with relative ease and the fact that Savage fared better than the three Council members did are not incompatible with one another. You single out one or two quotes, but you ignore the quotes that reinforce the fact that Sidious was toying with them. Factions No further refutation is really required than that, but if I wanted to thoroughly dispense with that clip being used in Maul and Savage's defense, I would point out that it flies in the face of Filoni's various statements that no one could compete with or touch Sidious and that Maul is nowhere near as powerful as Sidious is, even disregarding the fact that this deleted scene contradicts the opening salvo in the fight where Sidious subdues Maul and Savage simultaneously by holding them against a wall with the two of them being incapable of escaping. Maul saw that Savage was startled by the seemingly frail man’s enormous strength. Claiming that Maul can "hold his own against Sidious" implies that Maul may not be as powerful/skillful as Palpatine but is still within a fair enough range of him that he can pose a threat. This is wrong on all counts, because Sidious beat Maul with the Force and with a lightsaber all while holding back and just toying with him.Maul really can't hold his own against Sidious in any meaningful way. The Dark Son of Dathormir. ", --Taken from starwars.com, Databank, The Lawless Episode Gallery, Image 21 of 23, --Taken from starwars.com, Databank, Darth Maul Biography Gallery, Image 33 of 33. Team Hornyheads got stomped, that's what happened. Once they had Maul, they freed him from his restraints and informed him that they had arrived to rescue him. Sidious neatly side-stepped Savage’s assault, drawing back as the massive Zabrak raised his double-bladed saber high to try to pummel him with it. In the clip I posted of the duel itself, after Sidious pushes Maul away, he then leaps around Savage and dodges his lightsaber strokes with his own two blades withdrawn, then proceeds to outfight Savage and kill him. In the clip I posted of the duel itself, after Sidious pushes Maul away, he then leaps around Savage and dodges his lightsaber strokes with his own two blades withdrawn, then proceeds to outfight Savage and kill him. I know he was toying with them but I also know, even with him always above them, it took time to actually win. Indeed, Maul had been trained in several forms of lightsaber combat. They shot another rocket through the walls of the prison, and all three escapees repelled via zipline out of the fortress and through the mountains to the surface, where a group of battle droids opted against pursuing them. The original concept of Darth Maul wasn't a male Zabrak in a … I pity the fool of believe Maul/Savage=Sidious XD. Notice Maul pushes back Sidious in raw strength, with Sidious actually moved lower. Sidious' vessel was followed by Mandalorian super commandos Rook Kast and Gar Saxon of Death Watch, part of the Shadow Collective, on orders from Prime Minister Almec of Mandalore. In short, Sidious capitalized on being rammed by Savage by changing the location of battle into a different chamber, and it benefited the brothers not at all. The same thing with ''Savage puts up a better fight than Jedi Council did'' statement. On account of this, the fact that Maul and Savage hit Sidious in no way reduces the overwhelming advantage he enjoyed over them throughout the duration of the entire duel. @jedixman: Well, at least you can be grateful they opted to show Sidious better than the two not just with the Force but with lightsabers too. Great thread! To begin, here is a clip of the duel as it occurred on-screen in TCW. asked Apr 25 '17 at 15:39. The goal was to make Maul believe that the Sith wanted to destroy the Shadow Collective, so he would seek out Mother Talzin. He saw the strain as Sidious called upon the Force to keep the brothers at bay. His body bore innumerable scars from those duels—lessons in the peril of being too slow or two quick, too weak or too distracted. Participants General Grievous - I don't think he did, because just like Maul, he was only a … The fact that it's a good fight (visually) has nothing to do with Sidious' mindset. This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for: Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other While Clone Wars focused on connecting the dots between Episodes II and III, Rebels was a little more focused on creating a link between III and IV. Next Before leaving Stygeon Prime, the fighter fired back into the prison, destroying the battle droids who had decided against chasing them. They were as cold as space. By the way, thanks, and nice to see you around, GS. Why did Sidious choose Vader to lead Order 66 in the Jedi Temple? --Taken from starwars.com, Databank, Palpatine Biography Gallery, Image 26 of 29. We hadn’t really had a big one in awhile, and I really thought this is our chance to show everyone why Sidious is the Sith Lord. So, what, we're supposed to view every fight at face value without even looking at the context, or even the statements by Filoni? He became an acrobatic and highly-trained warrior, one who could relentlessly pursue his enemies while utilizing his double-bladed lightsaber. Mission to Serenno[1] He puts up a better fight than the Jedi Council did, I'll say that much for him" (1:24-1:33). But Maul had never faced his Master when he was actually trying to kill him. There are just some who think that Maul / Savage can give Sidious a decent fight before losing, which I think is equally ridiculous. Now we'll never hear the end of it. LOL. A force to rival Darth Sidious himself. 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